Revisit: A prototype in Leo’s lab, perhaps 1983...

Originally posted on the G&L CLF Research Facebook page:

5/27/2018: A prototype in Leo’s lab, perhaps 1983. We can see that he was developing MFD angled mini-humbuckers made with modified SC-2 pickup covers.
The neck and middle pickups are both the same size as the SC-2 neck pickup, so just the bridge pickup is longer as it is on the SC-2. 5-way selector, volume,
treble, bass (PTB). We also see the control plate is in raw prototype form, which leads me to believe this was built during the concept stage of the sister
models Nighthawk (3SC like S-500) and Cavalier. The Cavalier has just two angled mini-humbuckers. The bridge was probably unceremoniously taken for
some other project happening. I think I’ll bring this one back to life and take it for a spin.

5/28/2018: Apropos of yesterday’s post with the prototype angled mini-humbuckers, check out our 1984 Cavalier which has the production version of those pickups.

09/21/2018: I told you a while ago that I would put a bridge on this proto and I’m finally doing it.

The pickups are prototype angled MFD mini humbuckers with offset pole pieces to maintain string alignment. This thing has three of ‘em so this should be fun.

09/21/2018: Those frets sure looked like they had sat in a bedroom for 35 years. Can’t deal with that so I just gave them a little love.

Wouldn’t it be too convenient for me to come back and tell you this is the greatest thing ever. I’m not gonna BS you guys like that. But damn this thing is amazing.

Maybe these prototype pickups are different than those in the Cavalier. Maybe they just work better in a 3SC arrangement. Maybe when you see these 3 pickups, you approach it from a different perspective, you just ask it to do that Strat® (a registered trademark of my friends at FMIC you guys know that so just leave it alone in the comments ok) stuff and it has its own style on that job.

I don’t know, but in the first 30 seconds after I finished setting it up I discovered the most amazing chimey compressed jangle, so funky it hurts, and that was enough to blow my mind.

Now its the bridge pickup grinding the Marshall shockingly well. It’s crisp, defined, nice chunk, but it comes from a single coil place. It’s not humbucker lite, that’s for sure.

Anyway, everyone is gone now so I need to crank this the hell up. I don’t know if we’re going to make this or anything at all right now. I just know I put the thing together and - so far - I’m stunned. Yes we will get some clips.

9/21/2018: A quick iPhone clip of the bridge pickup banging out a big bold ‘Mercian rock and roll vibe. This thing is fun!

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What he said! ^^^^^^

Do I hear a little Eve 6 “Inside Out” in that riff? Would love to see these pups on an ASAT

an asat with hg-2rs has been my dream guitar for ten years!

an asat with hg-2rs has been my dream guitar for ten years!

I only got a half one of those ...


- Jos

Also worth noting that the Cavalier pickups are not the same length as the ASAT specials. The covers are a few mm shorter on either side such that, if you install a cavalier pup into an asat, you'll get empty space on either side.

On top of that, the ASAT special's tilt angle is greater. it's close to 45 degrees. The Cavalier's tilt is closer to horizontal.

I think the Cavalier pickups are perfectly proportioned. They're the most attractive pickup I've ever seen. I don't know why. I've been so into them for years.

I got a used bridge one years ago but I think the magnets were just kind of weak. Those were supposed to be pretty jangly for buckers, most likely because they have smaller coils and are angled like a strat bridge.

Anyway, I'd be overjoyed to finally hear the announcement of reproductions. I know they have cavs in the shop. I know it wouldn't be a picnic to reverse engineer the molds but I'm sure it can be done!

Also worth noting that the Cavalier pickups are not the same length as the ASAT specials. The covers are a few mm shorter on either side such that, if you install a cavalier pup into an asat, you'll get empty space on either side.

On top of that, the ASAT special's tilt angle is greater. it's close to 45 degrees. The Cavalier's tilt is closer to horizontal.
!

Here is an example of an HG-2R pickup in a Jumbo MFD bridge pickup rout on a Bahama Blue prototype I have dubbed the 'SCav-2' demonstrating the above:

But I'dlike to note the angle for a bridge pickup in an ASAT Special is about 15°, not the 45° you mention, and as such similar to a Telecaster bridge pickup, whereas the HG-2R bridge is angled closer to 11°. I assume your number was just a typo.

- Jos

I said "closer to 45 degrees." Since I didn't know the exact degree, I just meant "ASAT is more diagonal, Cav is more horizontal." aka "closer to 45, closer to horizontal."

In any case, I prefer the subtler angle of the Cav. Also I used to have one in my ASAT too but since the angle was steeper the pole pieces didn't go totally in line with the strings. Also, as I mentioned, I think mine was kind of a dud. It was getting an output of like 4.5 which seems extremely low so I swapped it with a rio grande as seen in my avatar.

GOD I want those HG-2R's reissued.

4.5 DC sounds like one coil was dead; does anyone know the stock measurement?

I dont think so because it was hum cancelling. my suspicion is the magnet was just old and losing magnetism.

I dont think so because it was hum cancelling. my suspicion is the magnet was just old and losing magnetism.

Got it- if you still have the pickup I’d try making sure it wasn’t wired in parallel. Might also be worth re-gaussing the magnet (or replacing.)

I was just playing one of my Cavaliers tonight. I would love for them to reissue the Cavalier. I would love to custom build a Cavalier to my specs.

4.5 DC sounds like one coil was dead; does anyone know the stock measurement?

See this post in our G&L Knowledgebase: List of pickups used in G&L guitars.

Hope this helps.

4.5 DC sounds like one coil was dead; does anyone know the stock measurement?

See this post in our G&L Knowledgebase: List of pickups used in G&L guitars.

Hope this helps.

Spot-on to the pickup referenced by Neutralomen - that’s an amazingly low DCR for any humbucker (low for a single coil actually.)

Spot-on to the pickup referenced by Neutralomen - that’s an amazingly low DCR for any humbucker (low for a single coil actually.)

Not necessarily. Think about it in this way: if you are used to humbucker having a DC-R of say 17kΩ, this may be because the two coils, each with a DC-R of 8.5kΩ, are wired in series. But the same 2 coils wired in parallel would result in a DC-R of about 4.25kΩ.

- Jos

it's a 2 conductor pickup. I'm not sure if you can wire it in more than one way. That said maybe that's part of the design. Maybe it's wired in parallel from the factory.

it's a 2 conductor pickup. I'm not sure if you can wire it in more than one way. That said maybe that's part of the design. Maybe it's wired in parallel from the factory.

For a 2 conductor pickup it is about the internals of the pickups, how the (other) ends of the coils are wired together, and has nothing much to do with the leads going to switch and/or pot. If you have a 4-conductor pickup, you have to choice to wire them up either way yourself.

Many bass models with an MFD humbucker have a series/parallel switch..

- Jos

I had the same thought about parallel wiring stated above - agree that would be unusual but not totally unexpected given G&Ls other wiring tendencies; the only other pickup which comes to mind that is supposed to be wired parallel is the Duncan Vintage Rail/Duckbucker. I’m usually not a fan of parallel wiring (on regular humbuckers) but my understanding is the comb filter-effect is diminished with smaller coils/footprint.

parallel wiring is a super usable tone. In my experience, while they're a lot quieter, they're also chimey and shimmery, especially for a humbucker. Maybe it was Leo's attempt to get around the super warm full range series bucker sound but eliminate hum(although parallel wiring doesn't COMPLETELy eliminate hum). The one I had didn't sound like recordings I heard. I still feel like something was up with mine.