Std. Comanche or ASAT Z bridge vs. Will Ray Sig Bridge

Looks like the specs for the Will Ray sig bridge are overwound and probably using 43 ga. wire instead of 42. My experience with the Comanche bridge was that it, like all other strat pickups that match neck and middle, was far too weak/thin to keep up with the other two positions.

I was wondering, from anyone who has actually used both, whether the Will Ray solves that problem or just reduces it?

Pondering a new Comanche but I'd be tempted to get WD to make me a pickguard with a bucker bridge unless the Will Ray offers a real solution.

If you go with the HB option you should get your G&L pickguard through Pickguard Heaven/Chandler. They are the source for G&L. They will do customization.

Looks like the specs for the Will Ray sig bridge are overwound and probably using 43 ga. wire instead of 42. My experience with the Comanche bridge was that it, like all other strat pickups that match neck and middle, was far too weak/thin to keep up with the other two positions.

I was wondering, from anyone who has actually used both, whether the Will Ray solves that problem or just reduces it?

Pondering a new Comanche but I'd be tempted to get WD to make me a pickguard with a bucker bridge unless the Will Ray offers a real solution.

The bridge pickup on the Will Ray Signature Model is over-wound with 1400 extra windings using extended length pole pieces for wider bobbin aperture.
I'm sure that once Will sees your post, he will give you his feedback on why he spec'd the bridge pickup this way.

BTW, you can get this pickup from the G&L On-Line Store and they are currently on sale at a very good price. Check the Clearance section in the Product Categories.

Is the WR bridge Z-coil interchangeable with the bridge Z-coil of a Comanche?

Is the WR bridge Z-coil interchangeable with the bridge Z-coil of a Comanche?

Yes, it is.

I don't find the Comanche bridge pickup thin at all.

Curious, what amp are you using; what style of music? How do you set your PTB controls? What kind of tone are you going for?

Bill

I saw them on sale, which is partially why I'm asking.

I am a WD Dealer, and WD has good customer service and also templates for G&Ls that I've sent them. They can do whatever I need in a short time. By contrast, Chandler has no phone number listed and took over 2 weeks to return an email, and were vague in their response. WD was also less expensive, even at retail pricing. I'll stick with WD.

I play through amps I mod. The Comanche suffers from the same fate as any 3S or 2H guitar where the bridge is the same wind as the neck/middle. Set it so the bridge isn't bright/thin and the neck/middle are too dark. Hence my interest in the overwound. Also the schematic specs a 250k vol pot; I'd probably wire it so that the bridge sees 250k and all other positions see 500k, or maybe at least so 2/4 see 500k since I recall my last Comanche being a touch quack challenged when the bass wasn't rolled off. I wire quite a few guitars so that different switch positions see different vol pot loads.

Regarding Pickguard Heaven, it was in 2011, but I got everything taken care of within a few days when I ordered a pickguard. I still have the emails and reviewed them. They got back to me daily. I see a fax number on the website but when I was ready to order I just asked for their voice number via email so I could give them a credit card number. Looks like WD is another option. Good for G&L owners!

My experience is that the Will Ray back pickup is very versatile. It's meatier, but it's not so thick that you can't get it to sting, which I think is a great balance. It's not weedy or embarrassing at all. I love it.
I use the tone pot with it quite a bit (which is a G&L thing anyway, different from just setting a Fender on 10).
The WR retains single-coil character, it's not compromised in the highs like a full bucker often is (Fralin Unbucker and similar being honourable exceptions).

The original reason I asked for the bridge PU to be overwound was because it was too thin and too weak sounding to my ears.

The 1400 extra windings beef up the midrange as well as the volume, both of which I wanted. It also tones down some of the brittle high end. It sounds now closer to a P90 if that helps.

The bridge PU should register somewhere around 8.14K ohms (ideally), whereas most other Z coils are around 5K.

It seems to be a bit deeper in length (top to bottom) than a standard Z coil too, to accommodate the extra windings.

BTW, during the first few years of WR production, I also had the MIDDLE Z coil PU done the same way with extra windings. This was because I usually keep my middle PU lower than the others so it won't interfere with my R hand picking, and the extra windings gave more volume to compensate for being further from the strings.

Will

Thanks for the reply Will!

Interesting idea about doing the middle pickup that way to. Did you notice with it lowered that you got more quack in 2&4? I've observed that with some middle pickups when lowered away from the strings, but not all.

I'm going to order a WR bridge PU for my Comanche tomorrow ..... never really notice it that much till you guy's mentioned it but after playing around tonight I think it needs it

Will , my ears must like the sounds your ears hear ..... The WR bridge made a huge positive difference to my ears and now the bridge pick up went from being the worse position to the best on my 2000 Comanche ...... to my ears it made a big difference and I like it a bunch , it's like a new guitar in the fleet .... my local G & L dealer installed it in about 10 minutes and what a great mod !!

Yes, Will's pickup in bridge position really does it! It's a great adaptation of a great design; the regular Z is very musical in neck and middle.

it seems the WR is like a notch up from the middle , before with the stock pick up it's like three notches up from the middle .... I really like it , the WR is a very good mod

Back in the beginnings of G&L, the guitar we now know as the Asat Special won G&L an enviable and deserved reputation for great tone.
Subsequently, the WR adaptation of the Z-coil for bridge position is now perhaps their best turbo-tone design. Hum-cancelling, meaty twangtastic piece of excellence. Ace.

I installed the WR bridge in my Z-3 on Thursday and found exactly what Will had described. I remember when I first got mine I had to raise the bridge pickup to get a somewhat balance with the others so it was much closer to the strings that the middle and neck. This has solved that problem and it does have the tone as Will described. A very nice choice for the Z or Comanche. They are certainly reasonable at the new price on the G&L website. I did take photos and also did photos on stringing the Bigsby. If anyone is interested let me know and I will post in a new thread.--Darwin

Thanx for appreciating the extra windings, guys. I was just trying to make a good thing a little bit better. Nice to know some people get it.

Will

Seems like my Comanche might be getting an early Christmas present!

I find that bridge pickups virtually always need setting closer to the strings.
This isn't a "Stratitis" or sustain issue, as the string moves much less, and is stiffer, near the fixed end at the bridge, so it's much less susceptible to the magnets' pull. The closer setting also keeps the output nice and even all up the neck (shorter strings move less, but get closer due to the action height, but the change in height is quite small at the bridge pickup.) Setting the bridge pup close keeps the relatively small distance-change in proportion, so the volume stays right.

Great Christmas present that pickup will make!
Any well-heeled friends or family want to get me another one, I could think of several great uses for it right away.
Very very nice one, Will.

I've been wondering how the Will Ray Bridge Z would work in my Comanche Studio VI. When either half of that pickup were combined with a half from the neck or middle, would it sound unbalanced?

I would say it's probably more balanced providing the studio's pup's are like a standard Comanche pup's .... the WR pu made the Comanche bridge pu useful position in my opinion , it's like a new guitar

I've been wondering how the Will Ray Bridge Z would work in my Comanche Studio VI. When either half of that pickup were combined with a half from the neck or middle, would it sound unbalanced?

The problem is that the Studio 6 PU's each have 4 wires coming from the PU. The WR, like most other Z coils only have 2. The WR would need to come from the factory with 4 wires to achieve all the coil splitting capabilities of the Studio 6.

Will

The inner two are cut short but they are there, you'd just have to extend them.

Thanks, Will and Ray. I thought they all had four leads, but after Will's post I double-checked the photos of the Z coil on this forum and saw that two were shorted together underneath the copper shield. Then my thoughts went to what Ray ended up noting. I'll probably let it go...

It's not hard at all to unsolder those two wires and solder/shrink wrap some extensions on there. If you know what you're doing it would take no more than a few minutes. If you aren't comfortable with it, take it to a good tech. Shouldn't cost much for 5 minutes of soldering.

What are the pickup specs on all three WR pickups and what are the specs on the three pickups of my 2011 comanche? Thanks for the Tips WR I think I will be putting a WR Z coil in my bridge and mid postion for the reasons you have stated. Nothing beats hearing from the man himself.

What are the pickup specs on all three WR pickups and what are the specs on the three pickups of my 2011 comanche? Thanks for the Tips WR I think I will be putting a WR Z coil in my bridge and mid postion for the reasons you have stated. Nothing beats hearing from the man himself.

See this post in the G&L Knowledgebase: List of pickups used in G&L guitars.

What are the pickup specs on all three WR pickups and what are the specs on the three pickups of my 2011 comanche? Thanks for the Tips WR I think I will be putting a WR Z coil in my bridge and mid postion for the reasons you have stated. Nothing beats hearing from the man himself.

See this post in the G&L Knowledgebase: List of pickups used in G&L guitars.

So The Comanche has 3 Z coil pickups that are 4.5k to 4.7k and the WR sig guitar has two pickups that are 4.5k to 4.7k and a bridge pickup that is 7.5k to 7.7k?

Yes, that's right.
Works great.

Originally the specs were roughly these: Neck 5.0K, Mid 8.14K, Br 8.14K.

That was because I always kept the middle PU very low to make room for finger picking clearance.

Early WR's have these specs.

Somewhere down the line the middle PU went back to the 5.0K specs because I felt it made more sonic sense for most other players who keep that PU higher.

I don't know why the new specs are lower for all the PU's now. They should be 5K and 8K instead of 4.5K & 7.5K.

Will Ray